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	<title>Comments on: Good on paper, poverty and silver bullets: not everyone thinks Cincinnati is all that</title>
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	<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/</link>
	<description>A bed bug policy advocacy group</description>
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		<title>By: JOHN D</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-18951</link>
		<dc:creator>JOHN D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-18951</guid>
		<description>NOT IN THE GOOD OLE CITY OF SHITCINATI!!!!!!!!! Rich hit it right on the head.I read the article by Mr.Hessel and laughed until I almost pissed on myself.I have the same problems as the college kids above.The Hamilton county Board of Health is a joke and will sell you a pile of steamy political shit everytime.By the way anyone know the rate of a steaming pile of Cincinnati political shit is going for these days?Read my post under the article where nyc vs bedbugs talked to Mr.Hessel and call the number and act like a citizen here and watch all that BS Mr.Hessel sold to you guys drop in value very very quickly.RICH FOR MAYOR!!!!!!You got my vote.SHITZANATI,Ohio what a joke!!!    JOHN D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NOT IN THE GOOD OLE CITY OF SHITCINATI!!!!!!!!! Rich hit it right on the head.I read the article by Mr.Hessel and laughed until I almost pissed on myself.I have the same problems as the college kids above.The Hamilton county Board of Health is a joke and will sell you a pile of steamy political shit everytime.By the way anyone know the rate of a steaming pile of Cincinnati political shit is going for these days?Read my post under the article where nyc vs bedbugs talked to Mr.Hessel and call the number and act like a citizen here and watch all that BS Mr.Hessel sold to you guys drop in value very very quickly.RICH FOR MAYOR!!!!!!You got my vote.SHITZANATI,Ohio what a joke!!!    JOHN D.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee Corea</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-10318</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee Corea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-10318</guid>
		<description>Hi BedBugsInCincy-

I am not a lawyer and cannot advise you.

The warranty of habitability is implied in every lease and may be codified in your state as it is in New York.  I guess I can think of some questions: What does your lawyer say about the city&#039;s refusal to inspect?  Would an inspection by a pest management company / bed bug dog company suffice in lieu of a city inspection?  Can you consult another lawyer who has experience and can actually advise you on how to proceed?  Have you discussed with your lawyer the warranty of habitability, its applicability to your situation, and the remedies, right to sue for damages, it affords?  Are you prepared to go to court?  Is negotiation with the owner of the property possible?   These are the questions I would be pursuing.  I&#039;m sorry that I cannot be of more help.

As far as the furniture goes, whenever you do sort this out, you should investigate Vikane fumigation, in a vault/chamber or in a tented truck, or thermal remediation, because conventional pesticide treatment of furniture is tricky, especially tricky in the absence of a host, and will require a lot of time just to see if it&#039;s working.  

Good luck.  What a terrible mess.  

Also, you should also consider calling your elected representative(s).  They may be able or willing to act as an intermediary for you in this situation and, in any case, should be aware that these situations are cropping up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi BedBugsInCincy-</p>
<p>I am not a lawyer and cannot advise you.</p>
<p>The warranty of habitability is implied in every lease and may be codified in your state as it is in New York.  I guess I can think of some questions: What does your lawyer say about the city&#8217;s refusal to inspect?  Would an inspection by a pest management company / bed bug dog company suffice in lieu of a city inspection?  Can you consult another lawyer who has experience and can actually advise you on how to proceed?  Have you discussed with your lawyer the warranty of habitability, its applicability to your situation, and the remedies, right to sue for damages, it affords?  Are you prepared to go to court?  Is negotiation with the owner of the property possible?   These are the questions I would be pursuing.  I&#8217;m sorry that I cannot be of more help.</p>
<p>As far as the furniture goes, whenever you do sort this out, you should investigate Vikane fumigation, in a vault/chamber or in a tented truck, or thermal remediation, because conventional pesticide treatment of furniture is tricky, especially tricky in the absence of a host, and will require a lot of time just to see if it&#8217;s working.  </p>
<p>Good luck.  What a terrible mess.  </p>
<p>Also, you should also consider calling your elected representative(s).  They may be able or willing to act as an intermediary for you in this situation and, in any case, should be aware that these situations are cropping up.</p>
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		<title>By: BedBugsInCincy</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-10317</link>
		<dc:creator>BedBugsInCincy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-10317</guid>
		<description>In my attempt to read up on landlord vs. tenant responsibilities in managing bed bugs, I am mostly overwhelmed by the quantity of comments and information out there.  What I have found, though, is that there is no clearcut answer and no government agency that is willing to help.  

My roommates and I recently discovered a bed bug infestation in our rented single-family home.  Our landlord immediately went on the defensive and said that it was a &quot;new&quot; infestation and therefore we as tenants were financially responsible for the $2400 bill.  Red flags.  As we did some investigative work, we found out that the house has a long-standing history of bed bug infestations.  The previous tenants (forced to pay for the extermination themselves) had treatments done on two separate occasions and without success they just decided to move out and move on.  

We also found out that just days before we moved into the premises, an exterminator confirmed bed bug activity in the house.  Our landlord, unsurprisingly, took the cheapest route possible and only paid to treat 3 bedrooms of our 5 bedroom house.  They of course never disclosed this information to us, otherwise we would have NEVER moved in in the first place.  

We consulted with a local attorney who told us to get a health inspector from the city to come out and write a report.  We called the Cincinnati Health Department and they told us since it was a single-family dwelling there is nothing they can do. 

Now we&#039;re at a standstill. No one is currently living at the property, but all our bug-ridden furniture and belongings remain.  We don&#039;t feel its our responsibility to pay for the treatment(s) but we also don&#039;t want to move our furniture out and further spread the problem.  Since it was our landlord&#039;s negligence and deception that has got us to this point, are we wrong to think we should have some sort of legal rights?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my attempt to read up on landlord vs. tenant responsibilities in managing bed bugs, I am mostly overwhelmed by the quantity of comments and information out there.  What I have found, though, is that there is no clearcut answer and no government agency that is willing to help.  </p>
<p>My roommates and I recently discovered a bed bug infestation in our rented single-family home.  Our landlord immediately went on the defensive and said that it was a &#8220;new&#8221; infestation and therefore we as tenants were financially responsible for the $2400 bill.  Red flags.  As we did some investigative work, we found out that the house has a long-standing history of bed bug infestations.  The previous tenants (forced to pay for the extermination themselves) had treatments done on two separate occasions and without success they just decided to move out and move on.  </p>
<p>We also found out that just days before we moved into the premises, an exterminator confirmed bed bug activity in the house.  Our landlord, unsurprisingly, took the cheapest route possible and only paid to treat 3 bedrooms of our 5 bedroom house.  They of course never disclosed this information to us, otherwise we would have NEVER moved in in the first place.  </p>
<p>We consulted with a local attorney who told us to get a health inspector from the city to come out and write a report.  We called the Cincinnati Health Department and they told us since it was a single-family dwelling there is nothing they can do. </p>
<p>Now we&#8217;re at a standstill. No one is currently living at the property, but all our bug-ridden furniture and belongings remain.  We don&#8217;t feel its our responsibility to pay for the treatment(s) but we also don&#8217;t want to move our furniture out and further spread the problem.  Since it was our landlord&#8217;s negligence and deception that has got us to this point, are we wrong to think we should have some sort of legal rights?</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3548</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3548</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe I missed this conversation while it was happening!  I suppose that the only thing I have to add is that we are, in fact, all in this together, whether we&#039;re poor or rich, whether we can afford treatment or whether we are forced to live with bed bug infestations because we cannot afford treatment.  We&#039;re all living on this planet together, and we will continue to spread bed bugs to and from each other, until...  Well, until our legislators say it&#039;s time to help us, I guess.

Eventually, the people who can afford treatment will get tired of paying for treatment, and they will demand an end to the drain on their resources.  This will only be accomplished when the people who cannot afford treatment-- the people who continue to endure and therefore spread bed bug infestations-- eradicate their infestations.  This will take cooperation from local governments, property managers, and pest management professionals alike, of course.  But it will happen.  Eventually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe I missed this conversation while it was happening!  I suppose that the only thing I have to add is that we are, in fact, all in this together, whether we&#8217;re poor or rich, whether we can afford treatment or whether we are forced to live with bed bug infestations because we cannot afford treatment.  We&#8217;re all living on this planet together, and we will continue to spread bed bugs to and from each other, until&#8230;  Well, until our legislators say it&#8217;s time to help us, I guess.</p>
<p>Eventually, the people who can afford treatment will get tired of paying for treatment, and they will demand an end to the drain on their resources.  This will only be accomplished when the people who cannot afford treatment&#8211; the people who continue to endure and therefore spread bed bug infestations&#8211; eradicate their infestations.  This will take cooperation from local governments, property managers, and pest management professionals alike, of course.  But it will happen.  Eventually.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugs</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3367</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3367</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that, Renee!

I agree 100% that the task force should continue its work, educational campaign, and investigations.  

Absolutely, never doubted that (as I think Rich is doing).  I just know they also need money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, Renee!</p>
<p>I agree 100% that the task force should continue its work, educational campaign, and investigations.  </p>
<p>Absolutely, never doubted that (as I think Rich is doing).  I just know they also need money.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee Corea</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3365</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee Corea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3365</guid>
		<description>This is what the &lt;a href=&quot;http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/the-cincinnati-hamilton-county-joint-bed-bug-task-force-strategic-plan/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;strategic plan&lt;/a&gt; says about the murky legal situation (this is why they needed that vermin classification/enforcement tool in the first place):

&lt;blockquote&gt;The laws that govern the actions of the Cincinnati Health Department include Board of Health Regulations 00053-9(D), 00053-9(E) and 00053-11(D), as well as the Neighborhood Quality of Life Code, CMC 1601-17 (Title XVI), and Ohio state law.  The Board of Health and city municipal code regulations assign responsibility for abatement of vermin to both the owner/manager and the occupant of an infested building.  This means that the Health Department may not be able to enforce abatement orders against owner/managers of large apartment buildings without also enforcing abatement orders against the tenants.&lt;/blockquote&gt;   
 
In Hamilton County, however, they didn&#039;t have that problem:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The laws that govern the actions of Hamilton County Public Health are County code PHESR 1-67, Section 4.16, as well as Ohio state law.  PHESR 1-67 allows citation of owners for abatement of vermin.&lt;/blockquote&gt;   
 
and this was to be the Joint Task Force&#039;s path to citing violations after inspections:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If the site is a multiunit building of 4 or more units, at 5 days of follow-up the owner/manager will be required to show evidence that a licensed pest control operator has been hired to do the abatement.  If no action has been taken to abate the nuisance, the owner/manager will be written a Notice of Violation, and will be subject to further enforcement action according to city or county codes. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, a very complex situation.  Which is why the work of the task force is so important.  They evaluated all these problems.  This document is smart.  But, indeed, resources are needed to accomplish these tasks.

We should all hope that the task force will continue its work, its investigations into the appropriate legislation and enforcement tools and, most of all, that it can continue its education efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what the <a href="http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/the-cincinnati-hamilton-county-joint-bed-bug-task-force-strategic-plan/" rel="nofollow">strategic plan</a> says about the murky legal situation (this is why they needed that vermin classification/enforcement tool in the first place):</p>
<blockquote><p>The laws that govern the actions of the Cincinnati Health Department include Board of Health Regulations 00053-9(D), 00053-9(E) and 00053-11(D), as well as the Neighborhood Quality of Life Code, CMC 1601-17 (Title XVI), and Ohio state law.  The Board of Health and city municipal code regulations assign responsibility for abatement of vermin to both the owner/manager and the occupant of an infested building.  This means that the Health Department may not be able to enforce abatement orders against owner/managers of large apartment buildings without also enforcing abatement orders against the tenants.</p></blockquote>
<p>In Hamilton County, however, they didn&#8217;t have that problem:</p>
<blockquote><p>The laws that govern the actions of Hamilton County Public Health are County code PHESR 1-67, Section 4.16, as well as Ohio state law.  PHESR 1-67 allows citation of owners for abatement of vermin.</p></blockquote>
<p>and this was to be the Joint Task Force&#8217;s path to citing violations after inspections:</p>
<blockquote><p>If the site is a multiunit building of 4 or more units, at 5 days of follow-up the owner/manager will be required to show evidence that a licensed pest control operator has been hired to do the abatement.  If no action has been taken to abate the nuisance, the owner/manager will be written a Notice of Violation, and will be subject to further enforcement action according to city or county codes. </p></blockquote>
<p>So, a very complex situation.  Which is why the work of the task force is so important.  They evaluated all these problems.  This document is smart.  But, indeed, resources are needed to accomplish these tasks.</p>
<p>We should all hope that the task force will continue its work, its investigations into the appropriate legislation and enforcement tools and, most of all, that it can continue its education efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugs</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3361</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3361</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Renee.  I guess my point is not that the $291K was being used well (and I need to look at this more closely), but that you can&#039;t fight bed bugs without funding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Renee.  I guess my point is not that the $291K was being used well (and I need to look at this more closely), but that you can&#8217;t fight bed bugs without funding.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee Corea</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3360</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee Corea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3360</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Nobugs.  We&#039;ll write something about exactly why the strategic plan is the smartest bed bug policy document ever written.  As for the inspection program cancellation and the vermin classification, these issues are very complex and we did notice that almost fully a third of the budget request was for prosecutions.  And that&#039;s something that we need to think about and talk about more.  But this is good, to have this conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Nobugs.  We&#8217;ll write something about exactly why the strategic plan is the smartest bed bug policy document ever written.  As for the inspection program cancellation and the vermin classification, these issues are very complex and we did notice that almost fully a third of the budget request was for prosecutions.  And that&#8217;s something that we need to think about and talk about more.  But this is good, to have this conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugs</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3359</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3359</guid>
		<description>And maybe I should clarify that here I am speaking as a Bedbugger and not representing New York vs. Bed Bugs views in the above comments, since these comments have not come out of our policies.  I am speaking (ranting), right now, as myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And maybe I should clarify that here I am speaking as a Bedbugger and not representing New York vs. Bed Bugs views in the above comments, since these comments have not come out of our policies.  I am speaking (ranting), right now, as myself.</p>
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		<title>By: nobugs</title>
		<link>http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/2009/01/08/good-on-paper-poverty-and-silver-bullets-not-everyone-thinks-cincinnati-is-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-3358</link>
		<dc:creator>nobugs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newyorkvsbedbugs.org/?p=1418#comment-3358</guid>
		<description>I warmed to Rich with his second post too.

We get all excited because Cincinnati is doing something, because it has a plan.  Because they dare to ask, &quot;How many people here have had bed bugs?&quot;  AND tell the world the answer.  Wow.

Most local officials in most places don&#039;t even recognize they have a bed bug problem, let alone attempting to do something.  But Cincinnati is not doing everything it can do.  And it wasn&#039;t even before it neglected to fund continuing bed bug inspections.

It&#039;s not just that --as Rich notes -- people who can pay for treatment do, while those who can&#039;t pay have problems that get very bad and spread.

Isn&#039;t Cincinnati&#039;s policy that tenants in private rentals pay for treatment?  I could be wrong but I believe it is so. 

This is disastrous.  Not because landlords should somehow be punished or made to pay.  But because it means most won&#039;t get (proper) treatment (in time).  I am surprised ONLY 31% of Cincinnati folks with bed  bugs self-treated with OTC sprays.

If Cincinnati wants to not have landlords pay to tenants&#039; treatment, then the government has to help.  (Or perhaps non-profits have to step in.)  I don&#039;t begrudge the firefighters and police getting help with treatment costs, but I think that the general populace does need it also.  And even more.

Money is huge.  The $291K for inspections was the tip of the iceberg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I warmed to Rich with his second post too.</p>
<p>We get all excited because Cincinnati is doing something, because it has a plan.  Because they dare to ask, &#8220;How many people here have had bed bugs?&#8221;  AND tell the world the answer.  Wow.</p>
<p>Most local officials in most places don&#8217;t even recognize they have a bed bug problem, let alone attempting to do something.  But Cincinnati is not doing everything it can do.  And it wasn&#8217;t even before it neglected to fund continuing bed bug inspections.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just that &#8211;as Rich notes &#8212; people who can pay for treatment do, while those who can&#8217;t pay have problems that get very bad and spread.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t Cincinnati&#8217;s policy that tenants in private rentals pay for treatment?  I could be wrong but I believe it is so. </p>
<p>This is disastrous.  Not because landlords should somehow be punished or made to pay.  But because it means most won&#8217;t get (proper) treatment (in time).  I am surprised ONLY 31% of Cincinnati folks with bed  bugs self-treated with OTC sprays.</p>
<p>If Cincinnati wants to not have landlords pay to tenants&#8217; treatment, then the government has to help.  (Or perhaps non-profits have to step in.)  I don&#8217;t begrudge the firefighters and police getting help with treatment costs, but I think that the general populace does need it also.  And even more.</p>
<p>Money is huge.  The $291K for inspections was the tip of the iceberg.</p>
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