Comments on: UF heat research (and a 1924 detour)

By: sam bryks

sam bryks — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:26:57 +0000

I agree with Doug, Renee…. there is really little in the way of patentable information in these systems. A hearter is a heater. A plastic containment chamber is what it is.
I know that the equipment developed by some firms such as Harris in partnership with Chromalox are being sold as a package for about $60,000 which is pretty expensive for a small operator. There are other systems also available, but again,, these are sophisticated and not inexpensive.
These systems are designed for heating a hotel suite or an apartment,but the cost is in the range of about $2,000 or more and the time to prepare and treat is extensive.. usually about 6 hours. The beauty of this is that when it works it is 100% effective, but in a multi-dwelling setting, it is quite difficult to do and there is fear of escape. Stephen Kells has done some detailed work on this that should be published soon… There are critical factors such as ensuring that core temperatures are reached. The use of the chamber was also quite costly. There is also the prospect of actually heating an entire building, as the temperatures are relatively low in terms of heat — sort of like a summer’s day in Cairo or Rhiyad or Phoenix almost.
the method has promise I think, but I just don’t see this as a practical DIY project for the vast majority of people. It may find certain applications as it is better understood and developed.
Sam

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:01:46 +0000

Honestly I don’t know anything about it except that it was something I remember, an offhand remark in a conversation with someone. It’s always imprudent to talk about things one does not understand! So I’ll stop. :/

By: Doug Summers MS

Doug Summers MS — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 16:37:49 +0000

Renee
That is a very interesting question… I have looked at some of the patent information that is available on Google.

One covered a portable trailer unit that used propane (or other fuels) to heat air that is delivered through large flex ducts into the building with an electrical generator for the fans & other equipment.

A second patent covered the use of a large trailer as a chamber for heat treatment.

There is a language describing the use of a heat envelope in a building. The heat envelope appears to be formed by flexible thermal blankets in the drawings with heated air passing through the envelope that contains the items being treated.

Like any good patent… the language is very broad… I think we would need an opinion from an expert on patent law to interpret whether the UF approach is an infringement on the existing applications.

Thermal treatment has a long history in commercial food storage & other applications. Note the use of steam heat in dormitories in the 20s… I am not sure that the concept isn’t already in the public domain…

I would imagine that there are limits on staking a claim for the rights on tactics that have been utilized for over a century

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:30:21 +0000

Hi Sam,

But isn’t one of the problems that there are patents involved? I don’t understand the situation with respect to the major companies involved, so this may be a stupid question, but can professionals do improvised chamber treatments without infringing on these patents?

By: Sam Bryks

Sam Bryks — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:08:41 +0000

This is great stuff in terms of what could potentially be done to address some aspects of the problem, but in a way there is like a reinvention of the wheel. Rentokil had a system for heating objects (I’m afraid I don’t recall the name) – which was a plastic chamber into which objects such as sofas and personal items could be placed, but the main drawback as i recall was cost to clients. I agree with Doug’s comments. There are so many pitfalls and risks if this is tried by homeowners, and potential for creating havoc — as Doug notes about triggering heat alarms – a false alarm by a fire department costs thousands of dollars and some municipalities charge for what they consider to be either malicious or inexcusable false alarms (i.e. through lack of foresight and trying something that probably should not be done in a multi-dwelling setting as a do-it-yourself undertaking, not because some people could do it successfully, but rather because the risk factor for it going wrong could be very high. I am reminded of a man who was going to doing a foundation upgrade in his home… moving the foundation a few feet by removing and replacing blocks. This proved to be fatal as the wall fell on him. Sad.. and in this case, illegal as a contractor would have got a building permit, but the homeowner thought he could avoid all that.. Expensive error in judgement for him. If there were an affordable kit for home use, that would be something, but my take on it is that this coiuld be a very useful part of a professional treatment — if it were deterimined that infestation was sufficiently widespread that this could be the key to killing bed bugs in furniture and in other items (e.g. books in open plastic crates). I think there is definitely a major role for heat treatment, but i think that this takes some reflection by the industry on how to use this tool cost-effectively. Equipment needs to be ;priced so that even small or medium sized firms coiuld afford to have a few kits for use, and then cost to clients would also be appropriately reasonable. If a firm could provide the chamber and let the client fill it appropriately, and then do the actual treatment, that might be a cost effective approach… I still, however, come back to the issue of early detection and early treatment so that the infestation is stopped before it has spread to more difficult to treat locations… We need a very high level of professionalism in this work, and it is not there yet by any means. We see overcharged services with overkill as well as superficial services. Sometimes control is the luck of the draw if it was reported early and the treatment was sufficient to eliminate the little bloodsuckers – to put it succinctly but politely.
Good stuff for sure i think,,, but i don’t believe this is a practicaL DIY project and it may never be…
Food for thought and action by industry… Some may say that use of dichlorvos could accomplish the same thing more easily… but of course, this has to be weighed in terms of airing out safely. Some dichlorvos products can be in homes in closets, and if it were possible to close off one room, and air it out properly, that would accomplish the same result.. I would prefer heat… but if dichlorvos could ber used safely, this is much more cost-effective.
I am hopeful that full heat treatment may yet be practical and cost-effective. Right now, at least for non profit housing, it is not…
Sam

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:07:15 +0000

Thanks, Doug. Perhaps this is more the speed of a facility manager, say, with complete control over the structure; looks like one may not need a lot of cash, but surely a team of quick-witted people not to make a royal mess of it.

By: Doug Summers MS

Doug Summers MS — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:26:04 +0000

One more caution… Don’t try this is a room that has a fire sprinkler head on the ceiling… Depending on the temperature that builds up in the room… a hot spot could set off the sprinkler head & cause major water damage & huge liability.

Professionals have an insulated cover that contains dry ice to keep the sprinkler head from reaching its activation temp which is usually in the 160 -220 F range, but can be as low as 135 degrees F .

By: Doug Summers MS

Doug Summers MS — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 00:12:34 +0000

My only concern is the type of heater that was used… relying on the override switch to regulate the temp is just not a good design… Bill Whitstine performed dozens of fire investigations where these heaters with the faulty thermostats had started fires before they were recalled.

A heater that is designed for these conditions would completely solve the problem.

I love the concept… low cost… use existing power supply… cheap materials & quick turn around times.

If someone decides to follow this blueprint… Please be sure to add a smoke detector & a fire extinguisher to the equipment list… Do not leave the improvised chamber unsupervised even for a couple of minutes due to the fire danger… Use temp sensors & keep the temps under 140 F… Be careful not to overload electrical circuits (which is another way to create a fire)… One heater per 15 amp electrical circuit..

This is similar to the approach being utilized in Seattle… except they are using commercial equipment as a heat source & a staff electrician to make the electrical connection directly to the power source.

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:51:32 +0000

Thanks, Doug, for that. And for the important info re the heaters.

I really would have loved to see this presentation.

My first thought — which is the conventional one — is that people in private homes and in apartments should use professionals whenever possible, for various reasons, including obviously any possible question of liability. Heat treatment, I should have noted, is available professionally in NYC, even for individual apartments.

But a great many people and institutions are left behind by conventional advice.

By: Doug Summers MS

Doug Summers MS — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:32:31 +0000

Anyone that reads Maurice’s spam message for Bed Bug Bully… Please be advised that this is a ficticious person promoting some crap that is pure snake oil… If you give them your email address… you will get a series of spam messages overselling this dubious product… I expect that Renee will be removing the spammed ad message soon.