Marc Lame of Indiana University thinks that bed bugs will finally move his university to adopt integrated pest management (IPM). His remarks at a monthly ‘Green Drinks’ gathering in Bloomington are quoted in this Indiana Daily Student story:
“I’m working on it, but there hasn’t been much response so far,” he said. “I’m pushing on these guys to do it, but it’ll be the bedbugs that will do it. There is nothing like a bedbug infestation to push people into action.”
Marc Lame is an IPM-in-schools expert, an IPM expert at Indiana University, and yet apparently IPM adoption has been slow there.
The Indiana Daily Student reporter takes a stab at an IPM definition that is familiar:
Integrated pest management involves taking precautionary measures to ensure that bugs do not become a problem in the first place, thus eliminating the need for pesticides.
Dr. Lame is also quoted on a kind of framework for viewing pesticides in society that, again, is very familiar to us:
“You have all been exposed to pesticides,” Lame said. “The EPA regulates them so you think it’s safe, but 20 years later they say ‘oops’ because those pesticides were actually harmful.”
Pesticides bad, IPM good.
Moreover, IPM eliminates the need for pesticides.
Got it.
“Once these systems are in place”
The idea that bed bugs will spur changes in the way we manage pests is something that should be examined. We’ve heard it before from various sources, not so long ago, for example, from Dr. George Rotramel who told us that:
The good news is our bed bug problem is forcing us to go from ‘spray and pray’ to integrated pest management (IPM) whether we want to or not. We can’t control the bugs unless we coordinate (integrate) the activities and functions of all of the people involved. Once these systems are in place and habits are learned they can be extended to include problems with roaches, ants, mice, and our other urban pests.
Eliminating the need for pesticides is not mentioned here and I haven’t asked Dr. Rotramel to elaborate. (I suspect he would roll his eyes and tell me I need to focus on other things if I did.)
Dr. Lame and Dr. Rotramel appear not to be talking about the same thing, and yet let’s assume for the sake of argument that their views are complementary and each would largely agree with the other about IPM. In other words, let’s allow for complexity and let’s presume a deep appreciation of the facts and the challenges. These people think about pests for a living.
Because I’m not a professional, not in the industry, not particularly afraid of asking stupid questions, I’ll ask: can you kill bed bugs with IPM?
And I, of course, mean everyone’s bed bugs.
I guess we’ll find out.
I do know this, the last time society used bed bugs as a vehicle for change, we made some rather spectacular mistakes, the effects of which are still messing with your head today. More on that soon.
These pages may be of related interest:
Dear Renee,
I read Marc Lames comments from the Indiana Daily Student News. I have met and talked to Marc in the past and we maintained a gentlemanly decorum during our discussion, to both of our credit, in spite of the fact that we are both aware of each other’s writings and we disagree on about everything.
I am dismayed at this claim that all of a sudden EPA goes ….oops….this pesticide is bad and causes (x) so we have to get rid of it 20 years later. That isn’t exactly correct. What actually happens is that EPA changes the rules and forces pesticides off the market and Marc knows that. Later on EPA scientists develop convenient memories as to why this occurred.
I would like to address his comments about Parkinson’s and Hodgkin’s being linked to pesticides.
According to Dr. William Landau former chief neurologist at the George Washington School of Medicine in St. Louis “That’s bull,” about efforts to blame Parkinson’s on pesticides. “In 1817, William Parkinson described the disease long before current pesticides were in use.”
“Parkinson’s is found in every culture of the world,” notes Landau. “We don’t know what causes the disease. But attributing it to something because people have a compulsive drive to postulate a cause to explain the unknown – despite not an iota of evidence – is remarkably stupid.”
Michael Fumento, noted junk science debunker goes on to say that “There is no evidence of any increase in Parkinson’s in the era of modern pesticides, which began after World War II. And there are no reliable national data, since the disease isn’t required to be reported.
But the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., has maintained the world’s oldest database on Parkinson’s disease, monitoring area residents since the 1930s. It shows no increase in Parkinson’s once the aging of the population is factored in. Though, naturally, it can never be ruled out that any given chemical might cause unusual effects on certain individuals.
Bottom line: If you’re really worried about losing brain cells, don’t sweat the pesticides. Just stop reading the paper. “
As for Hodgkin’s disease, obesity has also been blamed as a cause, and we know that the American population is getting heavier. However, this fact is incontrovertible; according the American Council on Science and Health, “The number of deaths caused by many forms of cancer has actually decreased, including deaths from Hodgkin’s disease and cancers of the cervix, uterus (endometrium), stomach, rectum, testis, bladder and thyroid.” So, if that is the case are unnecessary scares being thrown out to promote an ante-pesticide agenda? I believe so!
When it comes to science and scientists Ron Bailey in his work: “Scrutinizing Industry-Funded Science: The Crusade Against Conflicts of Interest” when-in he states something that we all need to get into our heads when researching what is said by PhD’s.
“The scientific ideal is that researchers are disinterested pursuers of objective truth. But science is a human activity and like all human activities it has flawed practitioners who fall short of the ideal. “Science is a contact sport,” says Dr. Jeffrey Drazen, editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, “People think about it being genteel, but it’s a tough game.” Harvard hematologist Dr. Thomas P. Stossel concurs: “The idea that money is evil and academia is made up of saints is nonsense. Some of my vaunted academic colleagues would run their grandmothers over.”
There is no such thing as IPM in structural pest control and bedbugs aren’t going to drive everyone into the arms of those who worship that the IPM Temple of Doom. What bedbugs will do is awaken everyone to the need to go back to what worked in 1946 and what will be the answer in 2010. Chemical pesticides!
Rich Kozlovich, Exterminator!
Rich,
I have never been as confused on this subject as I am now.
Everyone wants a piece of the bed bug.
I, like Rich, have had the pleasure of meeting and conversing with Marc Lame and some people from EPA and from the National Healhy Homes organization, but unlike Rich, all of us agreed on what IPM is about and what it means in real terms.
Rich writes with some authority and it would take a considerable effort to review his writing and references on Parkinson’s as an example of bad science claiming that there is a link between Parkinson’s and pestices or the ongong controversy about non Hodgkin’s Lymphoma.
Comparing IPM to pesticides is rather like comparing the skill of using a tool to the tool itself. IPM is not a pesticide but a concept on how to best manage pests AND use pesticides when necessary. The key word here is WHEN NECESSARY.. and the corollary to that is TO NOT USE PESTICIDES WHEN IT IS UNNECESSARY…
Rich does write very well and i respect him for that, but he continues to miss the bigger point…. it is not about just pesticides.. it is about best practices in pest management… and using an approach that INTEGRATES the best practices that are elaborated by knowledge of pests and their habitats, and of research on how to best control and elininate pests with the least impact ont he enviornment and with as low risk as possible to humans… especially children.. but all people.
I am also an exterminator like Rich, and i have done it all.. Clean-outs in hotels from 1 a.m. to 6 a.m. in the morning using GALLONS of spray… and deaing with excessive spraying in homes of low income tenants. I have related some of that experience here in other posts
The industry did have a spray jockey mentality and we all know this who are experienced in this business.. Selling monthly spray services for some kind of preventive program for insects that are mostly not even pests, but occasional intruders.. or programs of four times a year spraying of every apartment as a so called “preventive maintenance program” for roach control. I remember use of ultra low volume microgen misters that put out pyrethrins to kill any flying insects in a food plant storage warehouse (all the product was in CANS) in order to prevent the insects from getting into production areas.. But when one looks at that situation, of course the flies were killed that were there THAT DAY,,, and the rest of the time — well, they had a pretty good system of light traps, but if that were an IPM program, the light trap catches would be inspected for numbers and species and adjustments made to the overall system by down draft fans and plastic curtains and staff practices and would have achieved a more sustainable control than the monthly misting… I actually did that assessment for that firm as a courtesy, and they followed every one of my recommendations, but to be honest, they felt they had ‘REAL KILLING’ by the misting and my work seemed ‘too theoretical”.. that was the fixation on the paradigm, and in some cases staff complaints about plastic strip curtains over-rode the real practicality of keeping out flies from areas where doors were routinely open. This is not a short story but for anyone who understands the benefits of the IPM concept and has seen excesses in pest control by the classic spray jockey once a month service or the response to bait aversion of cockroaches to some baits, is “we must spray again” when there are lots of other elements in roach control that can be improved.
The bed bug crisis necessitates the use of spray products because we have no choice, but the angst on this is . how many sprays, and how many times a year and is this the final answer? I don’t think so…..
Even the straightforward benefit of vacuuming is not used by a lot of firms because spraying just seems easier than switching tools..
But this notion that there is not a thing like IPM is really nuts.. I have used the concept hundreds of times in a variety of situations, and it WORKS.. There is absolutely no doubt about that. This is what i learned by applying my scientific training and by learning from others notably Jeff Tucker and Austin Frishman over the years, and from many others in industry and in academia. More recently, Clive Boase has been a light of knowledge because he understands the bed bug crisis better than most from a conceptual context – why it is happenig and what needs to be done to stop it. Pesticides alone will not do it.. and pretending that all the other things noted are not components of IPM as an approach is plain silly.. The approach is an integration of methodology and education based on knowledge and on data review.. Arguments that it is little used in agriculture and too expensive and therefore it doesn’t work in the urban area really make me laugh at the silliness.
Take away the words IPM and the elements needed still stand and they are here on this website in abundance.. the IPM tag just identifies it conceptually.. it is a phrase and a title and an acronym, and it is a good way to teach how to stop and control this and other infestations.. The roaches haven’t disappeared from the face of the earth .. believe me..
Marc Lame is a leader in this area. i| suggest that Rich listen to Marc’s presentaiton on IPM on the NEHA website.. it’s free and it is common sense..
let’s stop this silly argument … Rich.. a lot of smart people support IPM as the important conceptual approach to best practices pest management and it is not going away.. so you better learn to live with it.. with regard to banning of pesticides,,, this is an area of contention but i think we can all agree we want to ensure the health and safety of people and especially of children who are most vulnerable and reducing use of pesticides will help in that goal… less is more when it comes to use of pesticides and it happens when we look at prevention in all its aspects with education at the top of the list.
I look at the wonders of technology .. even here writing this on a screen in Jerusalem Israel where i am for a few weeks, and talking to NYvsBbugs and to my friends back home an on other continents. It is unbelievable that we argue about a basic sound concept .. we need to do the job well and help educate the decision makers, some of whom still think you can get a roach job for 12 dollars..
Sam
I am all for bringing back the old pesticides that worked. The pesticides are now banned and need to be brought back because this bedbug outbreak is an emergency. And the EPA said back in the ’70s that they would bring back DDT if need be if there was an emergency. So, that should be done with all the pesticides that worked and are now banned. I do not wanna read any of that “DDT does not work” propaganda because I’m not talking specifically about DDT here. I believe that the answer herein lies in IPM and pesticides. But, 80% pesticides and 20% IPM.
How many times can an exterminator spray for roaches. Well, there’s 2 things here. I believe that an exterminator should spray for roaches and that should not be an “all-fix”. Because if someone does not wash their floors or their stoves or counters or refrigerators and has roaches, well, the spray and pray will not work. But, clean up and caulk and spray and that could work.
But, getting rid of bedbugs are backbreaking work and labor and pesticides should be 80% if not 100% of the solution because there are a lotta people out there that just cannot do the labor like the elderly and disabled and other people.
“There is no such thing as IPM in structural pest control and bedbugs aren’t going to drive everyone into the arms of those who worship that the IPM Temple of Doom. What bedbugs will do is awaken everyone to the need to go back to what worked in 1946 and what will be the answer in 2010. Chemical pesticides!”
I agree with Rich. Bravo! Someone is on our side!
I wasn’t going to bother to reply to this nonsense, but it is a prime example of what is wrong with the industry..
it is exactly this kind of nonsensical thoughtless drivel that hurts the pest management industry’s credibiity. ,. Yes, let’s go back to 1946…. we can bring back X-ray machines in shoe stores to see if shoes fit, and let’s bring back lead paint cause it works so well to preserve buildings, and let’s not worry about exposure of workers to asbestos…cause it is such a wonderful and inexpensive material.
Bed bugs had been shown to have resistance to DDT as far back as the early 50′s and therefore it is most likely that it would not be effective, but of course, let’s forget that it is persistent and is absorbed in fat, and God knows what long term effects on children. The ban on some organophosphates was grounded in concerns about risk to children and results showing impact on developing fetuses of experimental animals (chlorpyrifos),. Go for it “wakeuppeople”, why don’t you let us know the name of your firm, so some readers can be warned not to use your services.,
Given a choice between this kind of nonsense and the approaches supported by IPM practictioners, i think that the answer is quite clear, and let’s hope that common sense will prevail instead of nonsense..,
I wish we would stop having this conversation (the I can’t believe you’re so stupid conversation) and start having a productive conversation, on the level of dirty reality where things actually happen, of what can be done, and how these positions can be reconciled for the greater good of society.
We’ve reached a possibly manufactured impasse, but an impasse nonetheless, in that we don’t want pesticides, apparently, but we don’t want bed bugs either.
Fine. What can we kill bed bugs with instead of pesticides? And how can we make this affordable? Because if it’s not affordable it’s not a solution.
No one wants to have that conversation — there is no political will for the solutions that suggest themselves when you start to think about the problem in this way, and the various stakeholders do not want to look to themselves to see what they can improve and what they can offer.
The idea that IPM is a substitute for pesticides is a categorical error.
However much Sam wishes to say that this is not so, there are clearly people out there proclaiming this loudly. To wit, the nice people of Bloomington considering the bed bug problem from the comfort of their cocktail party.
Why do I care?
Because they have the power to shape the discourse.
And there are people in NYC, people living with bed bugs, who will get no relief.
The people who can afford thermal and other high-end bed bug treatments are effectively saying to everyone else, sucks to be you.
Renee,, in a forum of comment, as in a debate which is what is happening here over and over again in relation to IPM, i think that there is a necessity to put illogical and distorted arguments into light.
You are correct in Saying that IPM as a “substitute” for pesticides iis a categorical error.. It is exactly that, but i keep hearing comments about how IPM excludes pesticides or that it doesn’t exist, and I present the realities here about how incorrect that is.,.
Hearing some of these pro pesticide arguments without any real regard for the reality of human health is beyond comprension to me. No one says we should tolerate bed bugs and not use pesticides, but respected scientists and aothers say that we should not return to pesticides that pose risk to people and especially to children. So we get rid of the bed bugs, but we make children suffer for that.
I am presenting a well argued perspective here and i shoiuld have the privilege of calling nonsense as it is .. nonsense..
Perhaps i am wasting my time .. but i thought that this was a place to present best practices. We have people ;like Rich arguing against IPM .. |I never viewed IPM as a pollitical thing bvecause what it is was always very clear to me and i have pracdticed it for nearly 30 years with great satisfaction at every success and every time it meant less pesticides. but hwne i hear people politicizing IPM and making it seem as if it is an anti-pesticide ideology.. it frustrates me to no end. IPM is not anti-pesticide. it is based on common sense and on best use of pesticides when needed…
if that doesn’t make sense, well, perhaps I have to leave this excellent blog and stop comments altogether. there is so much here that is part of what IPM is really about and in that it shares the logic and common sense of the IPM concept.. But now and then we get this kind of ridiculous stance and i think it deserves response..
Debate is part of democracy and comments about opposing positions when based on well grounded facts can be framed in sarcasm and humour and example. And when there is stupidity, well, it needs to be identified for what it is… tune in on your own congresional or senatorial debates or British or Canadian parliamentary question periods
I take my lumps when i am wrong…
if you wnat to make NYvsBedBugs, IPM “clean” that is your choice Renee.. I ike your site, but i don’t need to hear this kind of stuff wihtout responding, so i can just not hear it at all if that’s what it takes. I think it diminshes your site if it is unanswered.
I actually started a reply to WakeUp. I would have referenced Michael Potter’s op-ed from last Sunday — which should carry some weight since he was calling for EPA/state exemptions and for new pesticides R&D. Truth is I don’t know how to reach someone who thinks DDT resistance is propaganda (what I myself think about DDT is clear from my posts). So I gave up before finishing it and was going to try again. Or not. Sometimes people just need to vent and I did not think WakeUp is someone in the industry; sounds to me like a bed bug-suffering member of the public.
I’m not trying to make this site IPM “clean” — whatever that means. What I actually said (and explained) is that I avoid the word IPM here — it is a confusing term that requires many explanations and definitions and is therefore not of much use to me, to me personally. This post is entirely about this confusion, my confusion.
As for this debate about IPM and pesticides, while not for the first time you are suggesting that people are making this up with an intent to politicize, there is Marc Lame speaking plainly, so plainly that a child could understand.
I don’t want to fight anymore, Sam. It serves no purpose.
Renee.. i very much appreciate your concern, and I do not want to be in conflict with you as i value what you do here and have said it before and say it again.
I think that Marc’s comments are taken out of context. In an ideal world if we could control pests without toxics that have potential harm to people, it would be wonderful, but I know that Marc is not against pesticides per se, but is against excessive use, and as I am, is for prevention and solving any pest problem in the best way with the least use of pesticides that is possible. That’s it… nothing more complex than that.
IPM is a lot simpler than it seems. If there is anything i can do to help advance undrestanding of this, i will do my best. I saw in the latest edition of PCT magazine that the National Research Defense Council NRDC (i don’t know if you know this or remember, but they were active in banning use of Alar on apples about two decades ago due to concerns about human health) – they have endorsed the NPMA Green Certification policy. I am a member of NPMA but i am not yet familiar with this but i know that NPMA also endorses IPM and i would not be surprised that their Green Certificsation has a lot of commonalities with IPM..
Renee, i will do my best to moderate my own sometime abrasive comments but so much of what you have put here speaks to the concept.
Education, and knowledge of the pest and its behaviour and looking for best practices so that the people most vulnerable do not have to suffer this horrid pest as well as excess use of pesticides..
whether we call it IPM or not is perhaps irrelevant, except that when i am trying in my own struggles to educate stakeholders I use the concept as something that people can see and grasp. When i tell tenants that it takes co-operation and if they cannot prepare due to physical limitations or in cases in which we know that the limitations are related to mental health issues then getting help for them is not optional, it is a must, and that it is not only their responsibility, but it is shared – i am talking IPM. When i tell a group of superintendents or property managers that helping to facilitate help for a tenant to prepare for treatment for bed bugs is THEIR JOB when the tenant is incapable of doing this on their own, i am talking IPM. And when i am working with pest control firms, i emphasize to them that it is not enough to just send people to spray units endlessly, but it takes communication with clients and oversight of the situation as pest management, that is IPM.
ok.. i’ll stop …. i am prone to expositions … sorry for that..
If i had another better way to describe the process rather than IPM, I might drop the term, but truthfully, it is a concept that has much background and much of common sense process attached to it, and when it is being portrayed in incorrect terms, it needs to be supported..The National Healthy Homes organization as well as NEHA and CDC and HUD support IPM programs and a number of states have made School IPM a rule of best practices.
We took the term a step further with the IPM Chain of Accountabiity Program, and so far where we have presented this formally, it has been well accepted. The idea of accountability in solving and preventing bed bug problems is clear.
ok.. i must stop there..
best wishes on your ongoing endeavours…
Sam from Jerusalem
To Mr. Sam: #1: I am NOT a pco or in the industry as Renee wrote; #2: Let’s stick to the conversation at hand and not bring up every other thing that happened in 1946 or shortly thereafter ’cause there were actually a few GOOD things that were discovered around those times that we still use today, ex.: immunization shots against deadly diseases. Now there were those Greenie Meanies that were against shots saying it paralyzed children, etc. and thankfully they did not get their way. #3: saying degrading remarks such as “…nonsensical thoughtless drivel…” and “…why don’t you let us know the name of your firm, so some readers can be warned not to use your services.” is just useless about IPM and the discussion at hand. It seems to me that you are so prejudiced about IPM that it’s blocking a healthy normal argument. You have a right to your views as well as I have a right to mine.
All I know is that I’m reading about people using kerosene and gasoline for bedbugs and I rather use “that 3-letter word” than those things anytime. “DDT as far back as the early 50’s and therefore it is most likely that it would not be effective, but of course, let’s forget that it is persistent and is absorbed in fat, and God knows what long term effects on children.” Hmm. I guess no one knows the effects that DDT has on humans because it seems like none is found as far as ill-effects of this. No studies have shown DDT to be a hazard to humans…period. I know people personally exposed to DDT and their health is fine. Two people I know lived to the ages of mid ’80s and low ’90s. And they were perfectly fine as humans can get health-wise.
So put your anger aside and stop the irate writing and write like a professional, that is what you are isn’t it?
This is for Renee: So sorry to read that you cannot respond to me because I think that DDT’s resistance is propaganda. Well, you do not know me and just because I have a view different than yours that you just shut down. I was happy to read your post right after mine and Sams saying that Mr. Potter asked the EPA to bring back banned things. We cannot agree on the DDT issue and that’s fine. But, that doesn’t mean that we cannot write about other issues in a civilized manner. I never wrote anything bad about anyone here and once a person writes against someone views, then I guess it’s okay to write irate things about that person, which I think is wrong.
I’m a college-educated w/honors person and am not stupid. Seeing and reading about the adverse and strong reactions to bed bug bites gets me fuming as to why this is not considered a health hazard. Just because it does not cause death, but I think that bed bugs are a severe hazard and not just a nuisance. I believe they can cause death and physical and emotional pain and the government and the people need to wake up…hence my name!
I hope I can keep posting in the future about my views without being harrassed and downgraded with words, especially people in the pco profession who should show some professionalism.
So Renee, I’m not going to bite your head off, so-to-speak. You should write your response if you will. If not, I’ll understand.
Dear WakeUpPeople
you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and good arguments that are respectful are always useful in forwarding knowledge.
I apologize for the tone of portions of my response, but i get frustrated when i read things that have little real connection to the reality of the world before us. I have heard Michael Potter speak on a number of occasions at different workshops and meetings, and i respect his work, but we have disagreed on vrious issues and i have learned from him and i believe he has learned a few things from me as well. I also know he has stated on a number of occasions that without new actives, the problem of bed bugs seems grim. Arguing about vaccines and green meanies has no real relevance in this argument. The banning of various products is based on science, and not on the views of environmental extremists.
as for health effects of DDT, well i studied this for my licencing, and guess what.. it has effects on people.. though in initial discovery of DDT it was an amazing product and the discoverer actually got the Nobel Prize i believe for the discovery and the impact it had … We can also have anecdotal arguments abut people who smoke living to be 100, but it does not speak to the reality of lung cancer and tobacco.
I suggest you do a bit of reading on the net .. go to the National Healthy Homes web site, or EPA and read a bit about IPM..
I believe that everyone who reads this site and posts here understands the impact of bed bugs and wants to control them, but we are not living in 1930 or 1946 or 56 or 1980.
There is clear evidence of detrimental impact of various pesticides that have been removed by the EPA.. That is their job. And i know from personal experience that pesticides can be overused in the urban environment.
So if you want to support better management of bed bugs to the benefit of all of society, please learn a bit more about the issues.
You can disagree, but i don’t want to argue with someone who thinks we should bring back DDT and start spraying and dusting with this product.. There is nothing to argue about.
Sam
For a detailed overview of the history of DDT presented in a balanced post.. read the Wikipedia article on DDT.. I have posted the link to the section on Human Health Effects….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT#Effects_on_human_health
then you can understand my irritation at a post suggesting that DDT has no health effects.. unbelievable!!!
propaganda is insidious and usually can be revealed by just scratching the surface.. Wiki articles are very well referenced..
Not always perfect, but this one is solid..