Comments on: New guidance for bed bugs in health care facilities

By: Julia

Julia — Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:45:41 +0000

I recently found bed bugs in my hotel room on the first night staying there. I was in bed about 3.5 hours from 11:30pm and awoke at 3 am and saw 2 big bugs, and 3 smaller ones. I saw a few bite marks on me but no symptoms. After changing hotel rooms, I’m pretty sure I wasn’t bitten because I was 14 floors up from my last room and slept with all the lights on at the foot of the bed and woke up up about every hour to check my surroundings. After I returned home from the trip, on exactly the 7th day all the bite marks appeared and itch like crazy. I have over 100 bites from that one night. I’m pretty positive I didn’t bring them home with me as I took some precautions.

By: johnycakes

johnycakes — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:31:06 +0000

Hi Sam,
didn’t mean to distort your response, all I am saying is IPM is fine but it must be put forward as a law. I make no distinction between tenants, managers, landlords etc. The bedbug problem, i feel, is not like the e.coli or phthalate problem. It is easy to legislate companies which manufacture goods, maybe difficult to oversee but laws are written and penalties are handed out. Bedbugs on the other hand are a societal problem not one associated with a few thousand companies but with millions of people. If a tenant or landlord can be held accountable they will think twice about contravening the law. As it stands now, the only recourse is grin and bear it, deal with it, or prove on your own that it is the fault of others. Granted it would be difficult and we already have so many laws governing us but like the public spitting laws, pertaining to TB, of the past, something will have to be done. Yes education, accountability and compassion have their place but society is not what it once was. I for one, have little faith that society can manage this problem. I think when bedbugs become a fiscal problem and start to affect people with the power to enact laws, we will then see a call to arms for legislation. I would rather see your solution, but I won’t hold my breath.

By: sam

sam — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:07:45 +0000

J-cakes,
I had composed a response, but as it goes sometimes it was lost before sent.
I am truly amazed at the disconnect of your response from my post.
First, i would suggest that you read my response again and absorb the meaning of my words rather distorting what I have said.
What does society mean? and What does a societal response mean?
Simply put.. society is US…. all the people living in a nation or a city or a town or a village.. collectively and individually. A societal response would mean the overall way in which society addresses the issue.
Your answer about “forcing measures upon society”.. well, in a roundabout way, yes, that means laws. It is sort of like why we object to someone walking down the street stark naked, though on some beaches in the world, it is pretty close to that with thongs and so on.
but guess what? societies are complex organizations of humans, and guess what, the aspiration is to a democratic and just society.
So, a societal response would be something like …………………… you guessed it — IPM… and even if some want to call it something else, no matter,
it is about education and sensible practices, and rules and regulations about who does what and practices to enable prevention. And that, J-cakes, is a societal response.
If you read the article on the e-coli contamination of ground beef in the Sunday edition of the New York Times, you will have a context of the sometime complexities of doing it right. And a recent piece on CNN about pthalates and other derivatives of plastic and their impact on infants…
In the debate about bed bug control, i think that the professionals want to do it right and do it in the safest way possible. Some think that this lies only in pesticides. Most competent professionals know that this is not the case.
The balance between individual and community rights is something that societies have worked on since people began to live in organized complex communities. More often than not, when force was the rule of the powerful, many people suffered for that, sometimes with their lives. A just society works to do it right and protect the rights of individuals and with bed bugs, this has its own complexity in helping people, believe me. Doing it right takes education and accountability and a sense of compassion.
and I think it is far more complex than attributing fialure to “one lazy stupid tenant”.. how about “one lazy stupid property manager” or ……….. you add the characterization because it fits as well as “tenant”…
best wishes johnycakes, whoever you are,
Braveheart for the third time.. a tragic piece. I have seen it once fully and then in bits and pieces. I don’t think I could bear a third time.

By: johnycakes

johnycakes — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:46:41 +0000

Sam, fellow canuck, at the risk of running at the mouth on this post ( or has that already happened ) i am not an exterminator nor am i in the business but the one thing i do know is people, society. if we have to rely on a societal response we will be up to our eyeballs in bedbugs before we know it. we require learned, intelligent decision makers, with input from scientists and pest control professionals to take control and basically force measures upon society to solve this problem. society is incapable of co-operation on the level needed to control bedbugs. all it takes is one lazy stupid tenant to cause an infestation or re-infestaion. i can rely on bedbugs to be predicable in their behavior, i cannot say that about people, unfortunately. i’m going to watch braveheart for the third time, good evening.

By: Sam Bryks

Sam Bryks — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:29:39 +0000

my this has become a long comment list.
i agree with Johnycakes post as follows
“i also feel there is a place for pesticides but there must be better modes of application. applications that limit the leeching of pesticides into the environment outside of the specific are being treated.” The answer is yes, trhere are better modes of application, but it is not just pesticides. Renee, in one of your posts you put IPM into the category of a method of treatment with the implication that it is either pesticides OR IPM. . It is not that.. Every time IPM is applied properly the results are better control with reduced use of pesticides. It is not because IPM excludes pesticides, but rather it utilizes them as part of a total strategy, not as the whole thing.. One field study by academics is not necessarily the end proof of IPM working or not working. It is not a one shot deal. The whole point about IPM is that it is a way of looking at pest mangement holistically… understanding pest behaviiour, understatnding the ecosystem of housing and all the variations, better quality of service, fair prices for a fair job. Marshalling support for tenants when they need support. and always education..
IPM is not about not using pesticides when needed but it is definitely about reducing volume and safe application and when pesticides are not needed, not using them as a brainless spray jockey baseboard spraying for harmless occasional pests.
I met John Osmun many years ago at a conference here in Toronto. A real privilege.. He is a gentleman. The kind of person who gives his full attention to the person in front him and listens and shares his experiences with warmth. I only met him once hearing him speak and then later asking him questions (I don’t even remember what now), but in those few moments i was left with a very good feeling. My only regret is that I never had more opportunity to meet with him. I have also met many unnamed egotists whose first interest was “me, me ME” to the point they were snobs in spite of their “presented” personnae. Dr. Osmun reminded me of some mentor teachers i have had in my lifetime who left me with the goodness of their spirits for a lifetime.
I know he is retired now and i do hope he is having a wonderful time.
As for the bed bugs, well Renee,, you are right about society needing to step up and set standards and legislation to make things happen taht should happen in managing this pest to elimination. And at end, it all fits within the definition of what IPM is about. It is not a method of treatment, it is a process, and a thought out scientific approach.. not that complicated really if one things of statistical process control, or HACCP approaches (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point), all methodologies of approach in order to get the job done most efficiently, and with bed bugs or roaches or mice or rats for that matter, when it involves society and people living in the [privacy of their homes and all the variations over which control is impossible, then it takes education and co-operation at all levels and some measure of legislation to help it go…and taht is a societal response.l
ok. i am getting off my soapbox now..
goodnight folks.

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:36:43 +0000

We’ll forget momentary lapse when you come to NYC for a visit! People of course have eaten bed bugs. I forget whatever for, but they were thought to be good for something, crushed. I’m all for crushed bed bugs in any case.

By: johnycakes

johnycakes — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:32:27 +0000

or…. if all the food writers and tv chefs extoll the flavor of bedbugs, new yorkers may find a new inexhaustible and inexpensive bar snack, bedbugs could replace chicken wings, less fat, more protein, a fraction of the calories, just a thought:)

By: johnycakes

johnycakes — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:28:51 +0000

maybe trained rats:
Mellanby (1939b) reported that bugs in his infested
animal colonies were eaten by the rats. In
my laboratory 70 bed bugs
(fifth instars and adults) were confined in an escape-proof plastic cage
with a white mouse. The mouse ate no bugs during the first 4 hours
(7:00 ‘ to 1:00 A) but all bugs were eaten during the next 10 hours.
Many cuticle fragments were found later in the mouse’s stomach (Bar-bara Wilson).

By: Renee Corea

Renee Corea — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:15:47 +0000

haha, but geckos are so noisy; New Yorkers are very sensitive about noise.

By: johnycakes

johnycakes — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 00:08:39 +0000

great documentary makes me feel nostalgic and it’s not even my generation.
i also feel there is a place for pesticides but there must be better modes of application. applications that limit the leeching of pesticides into the environment outside of the specific are being treated.
personally i’m a big fan of physical barrier methods and traps, unfortunately these will not work well in multi dwellings unless every tenant or owner is dedicated and vigilant.
i think this modern bedbug problem will soon come to a head in the sense that governments and industries affected will have to legislate and provide better solutions.
in my opinion thermal has no future, as you say it’s expensive and isn’t really that effective unless you’re talking small spaces or objects like mattresses.
maybe the answer is trained geckos